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THERESA RIEL: I want to call the meeting to order. Thank you, all, for being here. This is once again the most important thing that the board needs to do this year, so I appreciate everybody's commitment and support. Thank you. Can you hear us, Luis? >> MR. LUIS GONZALES: Yes, I can. >> MS. THERESA RIEL: Great. Thank you. >> TINA NEIL: Is there anything else you need to do, board chair? >> MS. THERESA RIEL: No, thank you. You're on. >> TINA NEIL: I'm just going to be quick. I just wanted to make sure that you all knew the names of the representatives from Anthem. Some of you got to meet them earlier, but we have Michael Ballew and Scott Watson here. They are going to be leading this meeting to give you all an update and a preview of what the search looks like and also to talk to you specifically about also your thoughts about what you're looking for in the next chancellor for Pima Community College. I'm going to pass it over to them, and as Theresa said, they run a tight ship. So over to you. >> SCOTT WATSON: Thanks, Tina. >> MICHAEL BALLEW: Well, thank you. We are very excited about the opportunity to bring you great candidates for your next  chancellor. We'd like to kind of start off I think with talking a little bit about the timeline, just to give you a high-level overview of that, and then we can go into some of the other information we'd like to get from you ladies and gentlemen today. We have worked with Tina and David and Jeff to put together a timeline, looking at what we understand that you want as a Board of Governors in your hope that a candidate can be picked by the summertime. So this is the time frame that is best going to support that. Just to bring you up to speed, we have met with the search committee. We have also been onsite for meetings. We had some very good meetings with constituent groups, very impressed with those individuals and their commitment to the college and this process. Was able to gather some really good information to put together our profile for the next chancellor. And I'll talk in a few minutes about kind of what we'd like to get from you to assist with that profile. We are in that kind of still evaluation process of all the data that we've gathered. There was an online survey that Tina and her group put out and made available for individuals at the university who were not able to attend the meetings. We had 195 people who responded to that survey, and we are still going through some of that, but it looks like everything was put in there as far as comments, thoughts, and so forth.  Maria, go ahead. >> MS. MARIA GARCIA: You said university people. Were you -- >> MICHAEL BALLEW: I'm sorry. College. Yeah, college. >> SCOTT WATSON: We were just at a university yesterday, Maria. >> MICHAEL BALLEW: Right, right. We've been there all week. The words get crossed, so just forgive me on that. We had 195 people who responded. Their information is going along very well with what we heard in the other groups, so no surprises from what we have seen there. The next step in the process will be to put together and finalize with the search committee the search prospectus document that we will use for marketing. We are looking at having that completed sometime within the next couple of weeks, and then we will spend our time out marketing to the national candidate audience, and we are looking at May the 3rd to present candidates to the search committee for them to start reviewing. We will be back onsite on May the 10th to meet in person with the committee to go through the candidates, narrow down and evaluate individuals for a video interview session with those individual candidates, and then we will hold the video interviews on May the 27th. Either the day before or day after, as well. We usually do two-day sessions with those. From those, they will select the individuals that they would like to recommend to be brought onsite for onsite interviews. Those onsite interviews are scheduled for between June the 3rd and June the  14th. That gives the selection of the candidate, development of contract, starting the onboarding process with a target date of June the 14th. So any questions on that or additions, David or Tina, to that that you'd like to add? >> SCOTT WATSON: Maria, go ahead. >> MS. MARIA GARCIA: I had a question. You said that you met with committee members. Were there outside committees, like from the community, or were they just internal from the college? >> MICHAEL BALLEW: We met with the search committee, we met with faculty groups, staff groups, we met with the group that will report, the staff that will report directly to the chancellor. We had an open forum for community members to join, as well, too, that we did by Zoom. >> MS. MARIA GARCIA: Did they come? >> MICHAEL BALLEW: We had a few people on that Zoom. It was not well-attended, but, you know, that's not unusual. That's the reason we do the online survey, as well, too, so it gives anyone who is not able to come to one of those meetings an opportunity to complete a survey. If you'll give me just a second, I can tell you how many. All right, so on the survey, out of the 195 individuals that responded, we had 35 community members that responded in addition to the others. We had 33 faculty, 70 staff, 37 students, 11 administrative individuals, the 35 community members, and then 12 individuals who  stated "other." When we look at, you know, who those others are, a lot of those individuals could really fall under community members. They were alumni, and, you know, others that we really could put under that category as well. >> MS. THERESA RIEL: Michael, will you be sharing those comments with us so if we have our constituents call and say, hey, well, I made this comment, we'll be cognizant of what they contributed so we don't sound like we're unaware? >> MICHAEL BALLEW: Absolutely. I can share those. >> MS. THERESA RIEL: Great. Thank you. >> MS. MARIA GARCIA: The one question I had, how much notice did you give the community to let them know that there was going to be a meeting? The reason I'm asking that question is because when I got it, it was really quick. I mean, you know... >> MICHAEL BALLEW: Yeah, it was quick. The notice went out while we were onsite doing those meetings. So they had what, Tina, originally like three or four days to complete the survey, and then we actually extended it. It was supposed to conclude at I think 10:30 or 10:45 your time on Friday evening, and we extended that till the same time on Monday. So we gave them over the weekend to respond, as well. >> MS. MARIA GARCIA: So let me just ask, did you advertise outside of the college, or was it all just online? >> TINA NEIL: Phil Burdick and his team sent out messages  through the website and social media in order to advertise the community forum piece, as well as when we were in the community forum and then shared the survey link to everybody was there. Then we extended the survey link at request for people to further send out into the community, which is probably why we got the larger numbers. So, yes, it was a little quick, but they started advertising on social media and the website late the week before Anthem came out. So we tried to give as much notice as possible. >> MS. MARIA GARCIA: Thank you. >> MS. THERESA RIEL: Maria, I'm not 100% sure about the entirety of the list, but when I saw Phil Burdick's e-mail that went out, there were people like Tim Steller from the Arizona Daily Star, so there were quite a few people like that that I saw on the e-mail list, just e-mails that I recognized. >> MS. MARIA GARCIA: So did it go out also to the TV stations? >> MS. THERESA RIEL: I don't think so, no. I mean, I don't know all of the e-mails that it went out to, but I think they reached out to the people who normally communicate with the college. You know, I think the people that like to have us hear from them, I think that that communication was sent to them also from Phil Burdick's office. We're going to move on, Maria, just because we have -- Wade? >> DR. WADE McLEAN: I have seen search efforts in the past lose top candidates because of leaks from the committee. >> MICHAEL BALLEW: Uh-huh. >> DR. WADE McLEAN: I'm wondering if we have made it clear to  the committee that Arizona law forbids them to leak information through this search process, and if leaked, there could be punitive efforts by the attorney general's office. So have we told them that they're in executive session pursuant to state law and they are, by law, not allowed to leak any information on these candidates? Because if word gets out that we are leaking information, we'll lose candidates. >> SCOTT WATSON: We concur. >> MICHAEL BALLEW: Yeah, we do. And we had a lengthy conversation with them about confidentiality. We did not discuss the potential punitive damages, but, you know, we will have an opportunity to do that again. We'll be meeting with the committee again very soon. >> MS. THERESA RIEL: Michael, didn't you also say that we will all be signing a nondisclosure statement in that meeting, the last meeting we were in? >> MICHAEL BALLEW: Absolutely. >> MS. THERESA RIEL: Yeah. I think Wade's got a good point. Let's just mention to them once again they can be held for punitive damages if they are not playing the card. >> MICHAEL BALLEW: All right. >> MS. THERESA RIEL: Thank you. >> MICHAEL BALLEW: Tina, we need to make sure we include that in the written, in the document, as well, too. >> MR. GREG TAYLOR: I have a timeline question for you, Michael,  getting back to what you were saying before. When you said that at the end of May there would be virtual, and then interviews, and then in that first two weeks of June, there would be in-person ones. You're talking about the search committee, right? That's who is doing the interviewing at that point? I'm trying to figure out, like, when does the board come in, when does it transfer over? >> MICHAEL BALLEW: The search committee will do those video interviews, and then when the search committee -- well, first of all, they'll review candidates, they'll narrow down the candidates to a list that they want to do video interviews with. Typically, just for example, the last chancellor search that we did there were 23 candidates. They narrowed it down to 10, because that's two days' worth of interviews, two full days. And then from those 10, they will likely narrow it down to probably 4 with maybe an alternate that they would recommend to the board to be brought onsite for interviews. Then the onsite interviews and how the board fits in with all of that, we will work with Tina and her group to figure all of that out. >> MR. GREG TAYLOR: All right. I just want to make sure I'm understanding you. So the virtual interviews are done by search committee; the in-person interviews are done by the board. Is that what I just heard or no? >> MICHAEL BALLEW: Tina, do we know exactly how those onsite interviews are going to work yet as far as on campus including the  board or... >> MS. THERESA RIEL: Yes, the board will be included in that, yeah. It will be the committee and the board for those onsite interviews. FYI, I'm not sure, Michael and Scott, if you know, last night in our board meeting we voted that myself and Wade McLean, the chair and the vice-chair, will also be part of the search committee. So there will be some board understanding, and of course if we need to share any of those topics, I guess we will be sharing them only in exec session, of our exec session, is that correct, or... >> MR. JEFF SILVYN: So some of this work will be in exec session, some will be open, right? Because -- >> MS. THERESA RIEL: No, I'm saying that if all of the committee work is considered exec session, you can't share. >> MR. JEFF SILVYN: Yes, but what I'm saying is not all of the committee work is exec session. Relative discussion of the timeline, there is nothing confidential about that. What is going to happen in exec session will be any conversations about the applications, the candidates, what questions we're going to ask them if we don't want them to know, so all that you don't want people outside the search immediate sphere to know will be exec session. >> MS. THERESA RIEL: So none of that we can share? >> MR. JEFF SILVYN: Correct. >> MS. THERESA RIEL: Okay. I understand now. >> MR. JEFF SILVYN: So when they elect the chair of the  committee, that's not open meeting, right? There's no secret about that. But the detailed work about candidates, details of the search process that you don't want candidates to know in advance, that will all happen in exec section so we don't compromise the integrity of the process. >> MR. GREG TAYLOR: Sorry, I'm just trying to wrap my head around this. I apologize if I'm missing something here. In my head, at some point there is a handoff from the search committee to the board, like the search committee is done, and then the board takes over the last part of that hiring process. When does that handoff happen, or is it running in parallel? >> MS. THERESA RIEL: I think it will happen at the onsite interviews. The committee will still be there, right, because they will be telling us, you know, what they learned, what they gleaned from their visits, and whatever happened. But from that point on, the board will be involved. Then basically, as soon as that is done, I think the committee is also done, right? Because after that point, everything is going to be done by the board. >> MICHAEL BALLEW: Right. >> TINA NEIL: Yes. So the onsite interviews are the point where the search committee basically says I interviewed these ten people, we recommend these four to go forward to onsite interviews, and the onsite interviews will be a combination of exactly what Theresa is talking about, you know, board interviews as well as an opportunity  for the rest of the college to meet these candidates so then you, as a board, can take some of that feedback into consideration as well as your own feedback to help you make a, like, college-wide decision. So, yes, at that point the search committee will be, like, this is what we have all learned, and these are the candidates, and here is why we are recommending these candidates to you, and then, Greg, yeah, that would be kind of like the passoff. Then at that point you all would take over still, you know, with the help and support of me and Dave and Jeff, just as far as the coordination process goes. >> MR. GREG TAYLOR: Okay. Perfect. Thank you. That makes sense to me. And just a quick favor, if we could lock down exactly what days those are, I want to make sure that I'm holding them so I can be involved. I mean, I'm already booking business travel for my day job in May and June right now. So if I need to hold dates, I need to know that soon, like within the next few days, about which dates I have to hold. >> TINA NEIL: Yeah, so after this meeting, Michael and Scott and I are going to try and do exactly what you're talking about, outline in more specific dates that then we can put out for holds. So we just had to kind of, like, tell you all the timeline, make sure you were, like, yes, and then we can kind of move forward. Because I also need to know what the date holds are as well as telling the search committee. So, yeah.  >> MR. GREG TAYLOR: Thank you. >> MICHAEL BALLEW: All right. So moving on to our next topic here, keeping us flowing, in our meetings with the constituent groups, we asked them to talk with us about some traits and characteristics that they felt like were needed in the next successful chancellor. We also talked about some challenges that they may face from the perspective of those constituency groups. We talked about what the college would look like 12 months, 18 months from now under the leadership of the new chancellor, as well as what would let them know that the chancellor had been successful in the job. We talked about some key attractors to the role that we could use from a marketing perspective. There certainly were some trends among the groups. There was nothing that really stood out among the different groups as far as traits or characteristics or concern that concerned us or that were really different than what we hear, you know, basically from other searches that we do. You know, they are looking for someone certainly who is a good leader, who listens, who is collegial, who is very student-focused, who gets out into the, you know, sees the community both internally and externally, and, you know, those types of traits that we are looking for. We would like to hear from this group, however, exactly what you're looking for, because you're going to be the final  decision-makers. Their issues such as, you know, from a requirements perspective, are you looking for someone who is just from the higher-education spectrum, are you looking for someone or open to someone who is a more nontraditional candidate who may be coming from, for example, the business world with some connection to higher education? You know, we very clearly heard from all the constituent groups that we met with, except for the community, we didn't get into that with the community, but certainly from the staff perspective, the faculty perspective, you know, they want someone from higher education, and that is always the case when we talk to those groups. However, we need to know from a committee standpoint, as we continue to provide the charge to the committee, exactly what you're looking for in an individual. So we'd like to hear requirements, your thoughts on that, as well as, you know, some traits and characteristics that you feel like we need to be looking for in your next chancellor that's going to work well with you as the board. So we'll just open it up to you to throw out things to us, and then we'll ask a few further questions as we proceed. >> MS. THERESA RIEL: So I know that we're not allowed to, you know, say we want somebody under 45. (Laughter.) >> MICHAEL BALLEW: Right. >> MS. THERESA RIEL: But we do need somebody who has vitality and innovation and energy, right? We don't want someone who isn't  going to feel like they have, you know, this amazing opportunity ahead of them and they can, you know, just make the world a better place, right? So we need somebody energetic, you know, full of vitality. It's very important for me to have somebody who believes in shared governance and has actually practiced that craft and that art. You know, I have been an educator my whole life, for over 35 years, and I do believe it's important to have experience teaching at some level, but I don't necessarily think that we have to have somebody from higher ed as long as they have experience and have all the other characteristics and qualities that we need. But we would like them to have had teaching experience at the community-college level or the university. I mean, there are a lot of professionals who have done that at our college, right? It used to be required of our administrators to teach one class every two years, one semester class every two years. I think that's gone by the wayside. But I think that was really important, because if people don't understand education from the practical point, they understand it from that observed apprenticeship, right? They did 12 or 20 years in education and they saw how teachers did stuff, so they know what education is about, and that's just a false statement, right? I have gone to dentists my whole life, but I don't know what dentists do. So I think that that is important. Okay. I'll let someone else share. Thank you.  >> MICHAEL BALLEW: Thank you. >> DR. WADE McLEAN: I'm looking for a proven leader and without any specific background boxes. I mean, if we get an applicant that was a CEO at General Mills that ran an effective organization and understood that they needed to pay the stockholders a certain amount of money every year to be successful, and that they had a product line that was marketable, that's okay with me. >> MS. MARIA GARCIA: So I'm going to go ahead and talk. I'm sorry, go ahead, Greg. >> MR. GREG TAYLOR: No, Maria, go ahead. I'll go after you. >> MS. MARIA GARCIA: I'm in line with Wade in that I think that a CEO, somebody that's worked in the business community, somebody that has proven that they work well with people and it's not a dictatorship. The one thing that I would hope that we wouldn't do is to hire an attorney. (Laughter.) I'm sorry. It's really important, you know, I think with shared governance, it's just that their training is a little bit different than in education or within a business community. I would like to see somebody that can hold people accountable and that his main focus is the college and the people that work in the college and the community and not self-interest. >> MICHAEL BALLEW: We heard that exact thing a lot from our groups, from all of our groups, the accountability and the self-interest piece. All that you're saying goes along well with what the other groups have given us, which is good.  >> SCOTT WATSON: And there is always, I would say almost uniformly across the country, but it was really highlighted in our meetings there, a need for more transparency and more communication. I mean, we always hear those two things, you can count on them, but it was really emphasized in our meetings. >> MS. MARIA GARCIA: Thank you. >> MR. GREG TAYLOR: So I think there is probably three things that come to mind for me. Some of these are traits and some are just kind of knowledge. I agree that in my perspective with what Wade had said and Maria was saying. I don't have any specific background requirements in my mind. I'd really just be looking for someone who has a proven track record of leading large, complex organizations, whether that was an institute of higher ed or whether it was a large business or a large community organization, like, I'm not specifically in that, but that they need to have a history of driving clear outcomes and being able to successfully lead a large, complex organization. The second thing that comes to mind I think is it's going to be very important to me that our candidate understands the importance of Pima's designation as a Hispanic-Serving Institution and what that means in historical context, that it's not just that we have a lot of Hispanic students but what Pima College has meant for access to higher ed for Tucson's Hispanic community, especially during times when it wasn't as much access through the U of A and other institutions.  So the cultural and historical context of what Pima has meant to this community at large but also to the Hispanic community there, there needs to be a recognition of that and an understanding of that continued role and the historical place the college has been. Then the third piece for me is I think it's critical that this candidate understands the role that community colleges play and are needing to play in workforce development. So, you know, an ability to work with local businesses to identify workforce needs and then develop, you know, programs to meet those needs. We certainly learned or it was highlighted for us in D.C., when we were at the ACCT conference, about how important that is nationally in terms of where community colleges need to be. And so it's of great importance to me that whoever our future chancellor would be either recognizes that or has experience in doing that in terms of those sorts of programs. >> MICHAEL BALLEW: Yeah. Let me address workforce development a second, just thinking about what we heard from our meetings, as well, too. Workforce development is definitely, as you said, important, and they will have to continue to do that. That's going to be a big initiative. We got the feeling from the other groups that your previous chancellor focused pretty much on workforce development and not much else. There is a really big feel from your faculty groups, your staff groups, your student groups that you need to focus, there needs to be a balance between focusing on workforce development and the  academic portion of the college, as well. Does the board agree with that? >> SCOTT WATSON: Just to supplement Michael's statement, it doesn't need to be a 50/50 balance. Nobody's suggesting that. >> MICHAEL BALLEW: Right. >> SCOTT WATSON: However, there does need to be some elemental recognition of what the academic mission and purpose was of the community college. So just something to think about, Greg. >> MR. GREG TAYLOR: Yeah, and I agree that we have to do both. I mean, I think, in fairness, probably our workforce programs were pretty far behind, and there has been a lot of effort to bring them up over the last few years. I think we have an odd internal tension where people feel like one has to be done at the expense of the other, and I don't think it's a zero sum like that, like, I think we can do all of those things. When I was talking about, you know, the importance of access to higher ed and our Hispanic-Serving Institution, our role as a transfer institution to the U of A that gives greater access to four-year degrees, I put all of that under that heading. So, yes, I think both have to be important parts of what we do, but I also know, just for me personally, that workforce development programs are really important to me, and so I don't want to lose the momentum that we have had but also acknowledge we need to do both. >> DR. WADE McLEAN: I think the person needs to be able to  articulate his commitment to the internal and external constituencies and explain why the college does what the college does. It's one thing to make a comment like that at a board meeting, but I truly believe that in the first couple years this college needs to have somebody that stays at home, that is involved in campus life at every single campus, and shows a positive interaction with students and faculty and staff to show that there is an emphasis on what happens inside the college, and then, at the same time, understands the pressures the college is under from external constituents, business community, and be able to articulate their vision of a balance. My personal opinion is that I don't know how a trip to Chicago to meet with other community college chancellors and presidents early on does us any good when we have such a need to have somebody here. So I'm looking for somebody that can understand the community of Tucson, the faculty and staff, and the students of the college, and also the external workforce development people that really truly need Pima College to meet their needs and see the college as a workforce innovator. I think that can be done with the right person, but they need finesse, they need a vision, and they need to be very visible inside the college. >> MICHAEL BALLEW: Yeah, totally agree. From your student perspective, you know, in looking back or thinking back at comments that were made by students, you know, student life is very important to them. Now, I know there are a lot of individuals that are online,  but I think there is a feeling that the students who are actually on campus have been forgotten about in many ways. The chancellor was not out meeting the students, not out, you know, seeing there was really nothing going on from a campus life perspective to pull the students in. You know, one individual made the comment, we just walk around on campus and kind of look at each other because nobody knows each other. You know, let's have some cookouts or let's have a band come in or let's have something from time to time to give some life to campus so we can get together and get to know each other. So there are some very simple fixes. From a recruiting standpoint, campus life is something that whether you're going to be -- even your online students, I think they are looking for some type of connection these days to their college. So I think that is going to be something that's going to be very important for your new chancellor to focus on. >> MS. THERESA RIEL: I'm going to give Luis an opportunity to share your thoughts. Luis? >> MR. LUIS GONZALES: My feeling is that I heard a lot of good comments, but one of the comments that I did like was the transparency but also knowing the community. But other than that, I think it's very critical and it's imperative that whoever we hire listens. As a commonality that was shared over and over, we need an individual that, as mentioned a while ago, is a proven leader but also an effective leader. By the  effective leader, I mean that he needs to listen, and I agree with Mr. Wade in reference to being out there in the community. But also, it's very, very important, as we know that Pima is Hispanic-Serving Institution, that we need to bring the people to us again, but also, in turn, one of the things that I have said before, and I'm willing to make it a commitment again, that we also, as a board member, along with the new chancellor, be out in the community. Let's have our meetings in the community. That's one of the biggest requests that I, from day one, but it's been five years now, but we have not done that yet, for whatever reason. They say it's impossible to do, it's a lot of this and that and that and this, but I don't think it's impossible. After doing two, almost three years with COVID, nothing is impossible anymore. But that's one of the things that I really believe that for us, as board members and whoever the three others will be coming in, and hopefully two of us will come in and a new one, that we need to be out there in the community. As was mentioned a while ago, there is a lot of people that do not know or they would like to know us in reference to being out there in the community, but that's one of the biggest things that I, my focus is, and I would like to see not only the students but also the parents, because the parents play a very critical role in encouraging and promoting and also supporting reference to their children and young adults to continue on with their educational pathway, be it through academia and the transition to the U of A, but  also to the workforce development, as well, too. But those are the things that I want to see is whoever we hire, be listening to the people. Not only to students alone. The community. But also to staff and faculty, as well. Those are the areas that we need to focus and an individual that has to be a listener and a go-getter. Thank you. >> MS. THERESA RIEL: Thanks, Luis. Maria, what were you going to say? >> MS. MARIA GARCIA: I was going to say the new chancellor, whoever it is, understands the community. By that, I mean that they understand the poverty levels of our community, that they understand the educational levels of our community and what those needs are, because, you know, we have a really low graduation rate. It's critical for our economy and also in providing, you know, the classes that are needed that they totally understand what's out there, what the challenges are in the community, and in that way that hopefully we'll be able to increase our enrollment. >> MS. THERESA RIEL: Thank you. That's another thing that's really important for me is that we increase enrollment. I don't think focus has been put on that for a long time. Some other things, we need to make sure that whoever we hire knows how to work well with a board. You know, if there is this give-and-take relationship, there is this respect and responsibility. We are a volunteer board, which is different than business boards where the boards are paid, right?  So when you waste our time by giving us inaccurate information, when the administration or CEO gives us inaccurate information, not only is it disrespectful, but it's also an abuse of our already giving the service for free. So I really expect the person who comes in to have a good working relationship and understands how to, what's that word, when you can use the board and make them better and make it work better instead of just wasting their time. So that's another thing. Unions are important to me. Not necessarily everybody on the board feels that way, but I definitely don't think that any of us want somebody who is antiunion, because unions are what makes America great. We don't want to lose those people's skills. You don't think that? >> DR. WADE McLEAN: They make America great (smiling)? >> MS. THERESA RIEL: They do. All the laws that we've got because children can't work anymore if they're 12 years old, that was all because of unions. Labor Day is because of unions. (Laughter.) Then one other thing is when I joined a year ago, the motto of this college seemed to be that we're doing the best we can because this book says there are these five great upheavals, and since these upheavals are happening, we can never improve enrollment, we can never do anything better because the birth dearth -- I don't want to hear any of that negativity. So anybody who believes primarily in that Great Upheaval book, they're going to -- you know, I want somebody who can recognize there  are situations in the community, but here's what we are going to do to go above and beyond that negative input. Wade McLean is going to speak here real quick. >> DR. WADE McLEAN: I would like to hear what the candidates say is their belief structure and how they fit into the political arena, both at the state, county, and city level, what is their role. Is it wait and see what happens, be proactive, just what their perceptions are. I think we really need to have somebody that can be influential in state politics, seeing as we don't get any funding from the state. For this college to exist, we're going to need some state funding, and it's going to be a difficult job to get that, but we need a person that is willing and able to make that happen. >> SCOTT WATSON: Just a quick question there. Does that mean that those funds are available, that they need to go in, and this is just in general terms, and persuade legislators that, you know, freeing up some funds for these initiatives would be wise? What does that look like historically, Wade? >> DR. WADE McLEAN: We had trouble getting money when money was available, and this year, for example, money is not available. Budget is at a deficit. But I think it's more of a sales position on this is the economic impact we can have, and this is how we can increase not only taxable income at the state level because our students are going to be able to make good wages and pay into the state coffers and also be able to  get the private sector to support an initiative to return our funding the way it was seven or eight, nine years ago. Right now, our entire funding is based on growth, taxes, and tuition. To me, that's not a successful model, because we are going to run into a wall when we get to the point where we can't or won't raise tuition and raise taxes and there is no help from the state. There is only two community colleges in Arizona that don't get funding from the state. So we have been excluded, along with Maricopa County Community Colleges, in receiving state assistance. That has to change. >> SCOTT WATSON: Thank you. >> MICHAEL BALLEW: Can I broach a very tough -- >> SCOTT WATSON: Yes. >> MICHAEL BALLEW: -- tough comment that I think the board needs to know, going back to the comment that was made just a minute ago about the individual having some knowledge in working with boards and being able to work with boards. I think this is very important, going forward. We are going to bring to the board a different type of candidate than what you may typically see or what you typically see if you're running this search on your own. We are going to be -- we'll run some advertisements, of course. We have to do that in higher education. However, through many years of doing this, we very seldom see really good, strong candidates coming from advertisements. Those are, for the most part, active job  seekers who are looking at ads and who are running, a lot of times running from something instead of running to something. And you don't need a chancellor who is running away from something. There are exceptions, but for the most part, that's what we find as being the rule. We are going to be reaching out to individuals who are successful, happy, for the most part, making major contributions to their organizations, and bringing those individuals in front of the search committee and then ultimately in front of the board. So there is a selling piece here that we cannot do. You know, we can only sell these individuals up to a certain point. Then you're going to be the final, as the board -- (indiscernible) from California who said she received a call from someone who's on a board at a college in California that she knows, who called her and said we were looking for universities whose boards were not doing it the right way and had some dysfunction, so we could better structure our board in the way that we do things, and Pima's board is the example that the consultant that was working with us used as a dysfunctional board. So word is out there. Everyone said that you're working much better now and that there has been great improvement. However, these candidates are going to do their homework. They are going to go online. They may listen in on some meetings. So, you know, we are going to need to present a united front to these individuals when they come in, which is one of the reasons we  spend so much time up front talking with you and the constituent groups on what we need here. But, you know, keep in mind that there is selling to be done by you as you're talking with candidates. If there are things that you, as a group, disagree on at this point in what you're looking for or what you need in your next chancellor, those are some things that we need to kind of hash out or you need to hash out at this point in the process early on so that doesn't come up as a red flag to candidates when they're interviewing with you later, if that makes sense. Now, that's a tough subject to broach, and we hated to bring that up, but we do know that that is going to be an issue. That's going to be a challenge for us when we go out to the market. You know, we feel like we can overcome that challenge, but when they come in front of you, they need to see that united board. The other comment that was made from faculty and staff that I think is something you consider, as well, too, is in most colleges and universities, the board serves as kind of an oversight role, and then the chancellor serves as that administrative role. They are the ones that do the day-to-day. As the comment was made earlier, they are bringing important information to you as the board for you to use to make good decisions and not wasting your time. You know, we're going to find you that person who is going to be the one that's willing to do that, but these individuals are also going to want, and they are going to ask the question, are we going to be able to do our jobs? Or is the board going to be there looking  over our shoulder every step along the way? So give us your perspective on what we can communicate to candidates and kind of what you're expecting, what they can expect of working with you going forward. >> MS. THERESA RIEL: Michael, when you were talking about the board presenting a united front, I do think that is what we will be doing. I think right now we're all sort of telling you what's important to us as individuals, not necessarily that we have already discussed any of these things and we have already come to a consensus, but, like, you know, if the rest of the board doesn't feel comfortable with saying that we need somebody who's at least not against unions, I won't push that when our person comes forward, but obviously our college community will, right, because we have a very strong union front in our college. So they will see that, but it doesn't necessarily have to be -- and I think that in general this whole board, if I may step out, we are all unified that we want a very productive, proactive chancellor who believes in shared governance, who believes in making students first, who believes in moving the college forward both in workforce development and the transfer track. You know, everything that everybody has said, I think we all agree on all of those points. The community involvement that Luis and Wade McLean talked about, we all feel that same way. So I think in general, we are unified in this. We all want to get the best chancellor so that she or he can continue a forward trajectory of the college and not take us  backwards. >> DR. WADE McLEAN: Speaking for myself, I think if I was coming into this situation as chancellor, I would want to hear that the board is receptive to sitting down with the new chancellor and delineating responsibilities. I'd like to hear what the chancellor believes is their role, what their parameters on decision-making is, and what the board needs to do to be supportive. I think if I was applying for the job and I went back and started looking at recordings of the board meetings, what I would come away with is that we have administrators that have been attacked, and is the role of a board or a board member to attack during a board meeting or hold the chancellor accountable for the management of that administrator? I think moving forward together that we could come up with a good plan, and I would want a chancellor that is good enough at board relations that they could help us, guide us to come up with that kind of a situation. >> MICHAEL BALLEW: Very good. >> MS. MARIA GARCIA: Wade, thank you so much for those comments. That's exactly how I feel. I believe that maybe, you know, in the past when we questioned, and I was part of that questioning or, you know, the leadership, it was because, as I have said before, that I didn't trust the administration. I did not trust the counsel we were getting nor the chancellor. Now, moving forward, with all of us in agreement and trying to  get the best person possible, and I believe that this board that we have now is a very constructive board. We respect each other. We talk out issues. You know, there is still some times when we may not agree, but we respect each other's opinions. I think that when you're talking about true transparency and working relationships, that's everything. You know, we're not robots, you know. So I just think that it's, you know, the other part is in the past, and we all want to move forward. All of you guys, all of us have said and agree on what we want. Everything's been stated. I'm done. >> MICHAEL BALLEW: Thank you. Greg, were you going to say something? >> MR. GREG TAYLOR: I was just going to concur with what was said. I honestly don't really know how to answer your question, to be totally honest with you. I do think that we have made a lot of progress as a board in terms of compared to the previous one about treating each other respectfully, as Maria said, and treating each other as peers. We also have, we are five different people, and we have fundamental disagreements about things sometimes, and that's not going to change. So I think we can work through those disagreements respectfully, but I scratch my head a little when we use that idea of, like, a unified board. I mean, yeah, we're on the same page, like Theresa said, about a  lot of those things, but those disagreements are not going to change, and the chancellor is going to have to be able to navigate that environment, you know, good, bad, or indifferent, and help to kind of bridge and compromise and broker some of that with us. So I do think they need to come in eyes wide open. The other part that is just the reality of the timeline that we're in is, you know, and I'm sure anyone worth their salt would know just by looking at it there are three seats on this board up for re-election shortly after this chancellor is going to be hired, so what that future board looks like is a question mark that none of us can answer in terms of the results. I certainly hope we'll sustain the momentum and progress that we have made, but I think there is a reality there that there is an unknown about what's going to happen, because we are in this unusual situation where in no other election would we have a majority of this board be up for re-election but now we are because of the special election and the two seats in their regular terms. So there is some ambiguity there that people are just going to have to live with because there is no way around it. >> MICHAEL BALLEW: Gotcha. Scott, did you have some questions I think that you wanted to ask the group? I'm just trying to watch our time here to make sure we're not going to run out. >> SCOTT WATSON: Thank you, Michael. Frankly, through the discussions, a number of them have been answered. Thank you all for that.  So one of the challenges in any search is generating curiosity. That's sort of the first step, right, relative to accessing the candidate base. You've got to get them curious about the opportunity. Then that morphs and evolves and becomes more significant throughout the entire process. What, from your perspective, could we share with candidates if they are sort of, eh, a little tepid about the opportunity? And we don't expect people to be all juiced and rabid about it out of the chute. What could we tell them that would push them over the edge to participate if we thought they were really an outstanding candidate that could move the needle at Pima? What could we tell them? >> DR. WADE McLEAN: I have one suggestion, and that is historically this community has overwhelmingly supported this college, that the self-talk in the community is positive. You go into any organization this large and you're going to have detractors, but if you subtract the detractors, that it's a good place to work, the students are well-prepared to move into either an occupation or a university, and that if you ask the Chamber or the Southern Arizona leadership group what they perceive about this college, it's positive. So there is an opportunity to be a champion here. This community will follow a strong leader that they believe has the best interests of this community in mind. So I see it as a real win-win for somebody that wants to influence the progress of the community college and understanding that they'll get the benefit of the doubt from day one from the  community, and they have a real opportunity to be extremely successful. >> SCOTT WATSON: Very good. Thank you, Wade. >> MR. GREG TAYLOR: Yeah, I would echo that too. I mean, I think in terms of our biggest selling points, I mean, for the college itself, I would say, you know, there is a tremendous opportunity here to really move the needle in significant ways in this community. You know, Maria mentioned earlier we're a community with a high poverty rate, I think it's about 13%, 14%, 15%, something like that, so the potential for the college, well, we are now, but the potential to continue to grow and strengthen and expand the college's role in transforming this community in really meaningful ways, I think there is huge potential here for somebody that really wants to make an impact in what they're doing and be able to see that over time, I think that should be, I would hope that would be tremendously exciting for somebody who really wants to get into it and do the work. And then the other piece, too, I think there are some really uniquely interesting things about Tucson. You know, it's a large community, and we're over a million people in terms of our overall area, but it's not so large that, you know, you can't kind of wrap your arms around it. It's also a community that has a strong sense of itself in its geographic identity, that there is a lot of pride from being here, being from here, being part of this community that I don't see in other areas.  So it's almost a mixture of some of the benefits of being in larger urban areas with some of the identity and benefits and sense of community that you find in smaller rural communities. And we're able to offer all of those things. So I think it's a place where somebody could really be part of a really interesting dynamic, vibrant community, that has a unique identity, and at the same time have opportunities to make some tremendous professional impact in terms of where they can take the college. And I hope that would be exciting. >> DR. WADE McLEAN: And maybe we can throw in season tickets to the University of Arizona men's basketball as an enticement. (Laughter.) >> MS. THERESA RIEL: So I want to apply for the job because I love what both of you have said except the tickets, I could take or leave those. (Laughter.) Southern Arizona, just as another selling point, it is the most beautiful place on earth. We have everything from deserts all the way up to evergreen forests within 35 minutes of where we live. Prior chancellors, not the most recent one, but prior chancellors, I would go hiking with them, and we'd go hiking in the Catalinas or the Rincons, and, you know, there is so much opportunity for someone who is interesting and interested in activities to do in Tucson. As far as getting out, meeting neighbors, meeting communities, meeting all the different ethnic groups we have in town, you know, there is all of the entertainment that's available, concerts, opera,  symphony, all sorts of sporting events. Phoenix, I don't know why anybody would want to spend too much time up there, but they have everything that we don't have, right? So it's really an amazing place to live. It's an amazing place to grow. Even though our schools have had, K-12 have had some, you know, detractors, they do a pretty darn good job, and there are some amazing districts. So if the chancellor, if she or he has kids, you know, that the schools, there are some really, really great schools in Tucson. So anyway, I just think if you just -- when Wade mentioned the detractors in the community, even though there are detractors of the college, even though they bitch and complain about us, they still support us. So, you know, it's not like you're working against anybody. Our overrides have passed overwhelmingly for K-20 education, so the community, they don't mind spending their tax dollars. They don't complain about educational taxes. So that's another great thing. >> SCOTT WATSON: Thanks, Theresa. That's good. Maria, any thoughts? >> MS. MARIA GARCIA: No, it's already been said. They do a better job at explaining it than I do. >> MICHAEL BALLEW: Luis, any thoughts from you? >> MS. MARIA GARCIA: Are you still here? >> MR. LUIS GONZALES: Yeah, I'm still here. Well, it was pretty much said.  One of the things I just want to share is that Tucson is very unique itself. I'm originally from the Phoenix area, so I'm partial to Phoenix, as well, too. (Laughter.) But as mentioned a while ago, it is a unique place, it's a slower, in my experience, it's a slower motion in reference to the rat race up there. But more important, it's that right now, Tucson area is something that can be built upon with a lot of businesses that we have around here, especially with Pima College. I think, and I have said it before, nothing new, we can always do better. But it takes a community, takes new leadership that's going to come in, to do better, but also to take us up to that second level, as well too. One of the things that I personally was mentioning, like every other day or every other meeting, is the state funding. Who better yet to really provide the advocacy, the voice, the push to evoke those funds to be returned back, talking to the people out there. It's not only the Governing Board. It has to be the community. That's it. >> SCOTT WATSON: Thank you. >> MICHAEL BALLEW: Who else do we have? Is it Marcos and Glenn, if I can see the screen correctly? Do y'all have anything to add? >> TINA NEIL: They are just our IT people. >> MICHAEL BALLEW: Gotcha. All right. Just want to make sure we give everybody a chance here. >> SCOTT WATSON: Michael, the group today has been very  forthcoming with their observations and suggestions, so they kind of covered most of my questions, which is wonderful. >> MICHAEL BALLEW: Yeah. What have we not talked about that you feel like are going to be the greatest challenges of this person coming in right away? I mean, you have given us quite a few, but is there anything that we have not talked about that you feel like would be a challenge to this individual coming in? >> MR. GREG TAYLOR: I don't think any of us have brought up the HLC specifically, but I do think that that's something that is on the radar, because, you know, we are in our reaccreditation year, and it's going to be sort of -- well, I shouldn't even say midstream. I don't know at what point, but maybe towards the end of what our internal preparations are and then going into the actual site visits at the end of this calendar year. That's another sort of point of ambiguity that the person coming in is going to probably start -- well, I don't know how much influence they can have over a lot of that, but that's a variable I guess that they are going to have to deal with. But also, you know, we don't have the -- we have had some issues with our accreditation in the past, which, I mean, I hope we don't have any this time. I'm hopeful, cautiously optimistic, but I do think that is a thing that the new chancellor needs to come in eyes wide open about. I mean, I hope we get great news, but we'll see >> SCOTT WATSON: Well, these bodies, as you know, rarely roll through without some recommendations, right? I mean, there is going  to be something, I'm sure. >> MS. THERESA RIEL: Job security. (Laughter.) I think the other things, so some of the challenges I think is Pima is in a state of change in some areas, you know, where we are realigning our online education department. The finances are always, you know, questionable because once again we don't have an increasing revenue. We have a static revenue. But of course everything else is going up, cost of items and inflation and et cetera. So there are some challenges. I don't want to say that they're, you know, negatives, because I think any time someone has a creative, you know, inquisitive type of mind, there are solutions to every challenge we have out there. So hopefully, you know, the candidates don't look at those things as negatives. They look at them as opportunities for growth. So, you know, that whole growth mindset is so darn important any time in education and especially when things are, the list of challenges are quite a few. You know, HLC, getting reaccredited, increasing enrollment, funding, salary increases, all of those things to me just seems like a normal part of a job for anybody who's going to be in this kind of position. So hopefully our candidates have that sort of outlook also. >> DR. WADE McLEAN: You get us a candidate who is open, honest, collaborative, caring, nurturing, and a visionary, and they will be successful.  >> MS. THERESA RIEL: And strong. They have to be strong. Yeah. Not strong as authoritarian but strong as, you know, making sure the college's needs are being met and that people are doing what they're supposed to be doing. Holding people accountable. >> SCOTT WATSON: Yeah. We heard thickness of your outer derma layer, thick skin being required, several times. There was a bit of a motif there. Is that true? What do you think about that? >> DR. WADE McLEAN: You're talking about a chancellor? >> SCOTT WATSON: Yes. >> DR. WADE McLEAN: I think that's more of being nonreactionary. >> SCOTT WATSON: Okay. >> DR. WADE McLEAN: Willing and able to take a shot and use it in analytical decision-making as opposed to emotional decision-making. >> MR. GREG TAYLOR: Yeah, and I agree with what Wade said. I do think there is a reality of this community that it is maybe somewhat activist in nature, just sort of in general, and so I do think that you have some people who do their activism through, like, public blame and shame as opposed to collaboratively trying to work together. So there is always going to be some part, and a lot of times it might be well-intentioned, but you do have to be able to kind of roll with it because it will happen. It's just the nature of this community. >> MS. THERESA RIEL: You know, Michael and Scott, when you guys  were talking to the original committee that was choosing the hiring firm, I did hear something that you guys said about diversity in your approach. I just thought about this, but, like, there are those organizations, NALEO, the different organizations of leadership in higher education that focus on the minority population, administrators that are minorities. Are you going to be advertising in their brochures, things like that, also? >> MICHAEL BALLEW: Yeah, we typically do The Chronicle, and we use their diversity distribution which goes to about 120-plus organizations, diversity. Many of those will pull that ad and put it on their websites. Others will just simply distribute the ad to their members. We also use diverse issues in higher education. In your particular case, you know, being a Hispanic-Serving Institution, we will likely, there is a Hispanic leadership in higher education group that we have used from time to time, and we are certainly open to placing it anywhere that you want us to. >> MS. THERESA RIEL: I mean, I just think it's really important that we make sure that those people from diverse backgrounds know of this opportunity. It's not a requirement to hire a Hispanic person or anything like that, but we just want to make sure that they have, you know, access to the announcement so they're able to make their own application if they want to. >> MICHAEL BALLEW: Yeah. And you will have a diverse slate of  candidates to review. You know, our internal policy is that we bring forth a diverse slate of candidates 100% of the time, and we have done that over the past three years. For those of you that were not involved in that discussion of selecting firms, about 68% of our placements are women and people of color right now for president and chancellor-level positions. So those are numbers we are very proud of. I think the average right now for search firms nationally is about 65%, so we do make a very big effort to reach out to individuals of diversity. So if there are places specifically that you would like us to advertise, if you would shoot me an e-mail on those, I would greatly appreciate it, and I will make sure that we include those. >> MS. THERESA RIEL: Thank you. >> MICHAEL BALLEW: You're welcome. And I tell you what, I will put my e-mail address here in the chat if you want to have that. >> MS. THERESA RIEL: And maybe, Tina, since we are in this sort of group thing, I don't really have access to the chat right now, will you just forward those e-mails to the board members? >> MS. MARIA GARCIA: There it is. >> DR. WADE McLEAN: Hey, Tina, it's nice to have an HR director with a face. >> MS. MARIA GARCIA: Shame on you. (Laughter.) >> TINA NEIL: You're welcome. >> MICHAEL BALLEW: If we can brag on her, she is fabulous. If you were not a client, I swear we'd try to steal her from you. She  has been great through this process. She's on top of everything. >> MS. THERESA RIEL: Tina, after last night's board meeting, I had two different e-mails from people who weren't at the meeting but listened to it. They told me that I was spot-on in thanking you for stepping up. They said you have been responsive and the most efficient HR person, that they have been here for five or six years, one of them said, and you have been so efficient every time they have needed to contact you. Anyway, thank you again. >> DR. WADE McLEAN: So use your expertise. Put together a training session for the Governing Board. >> TINA NEIL: You just tell me what you want and need. I'll come out and do some training. Yeah, so as I said, organization is my game. I will make sure that I use that talent to help you all out. >> MS. MARIA GARCIA: Right. >> MICHAEL BALLEW: Tina may have something already on this to use for the board, but we do offer -- well, we teach our search committees how to do competency-based and behavioral-based interviewing, and we use that through our process in looking at how past behaviors predict future performance. We also frequently will do that, do a brief training on that with our board when they are looking at making decisions, just depending on how comfortable you feel like your interview expertise may be. You know, Tina, that's certainly something that we are open to  doing if that will assist in the process as well, too. >> TINA NEIL: Yeah, I think the board can let me know if they're interested in that. You know, in my prior work and working with career services at the University of Arizona, as we talked about, Michael, I know some of those techniques, so if the board wants that we can either co-do it, or they can say, no, we just want Michael, you know, whatever you all are looking for. You'll just have to let me know as we get closer to that process. I didn't finish saying, Theresa, thank you for sharing those compliments. It's one of my New Year's resolutions to make sure that I accept compliments. (Laughter.) >> MS. THERESA RIEL: Thank you. Do we have anything else we needed to talk about? >> MICHAEL BALLEW: I think we have covered it from our perspective. Is there anything as a group that we have not asked you about or that you have not told us about that you feel like we need to know? All right. Thank you very much for your time, and, you know, you've given us some very valuable feedback. It is comforting to know what you have given us fits very much in line with what we heard from the constituent groups. There doesn't seem to be any roadblocks there that we or you are going to face going through the process, and that's great. That's always good to know going into it. >> MS. THERESA RIEL: Great. Thank you.  >> MICHAEL BALLEW: Thank you. >> MS. THERESA RIEL: We will adjourn this meeting, then. Adjourning. Thank you. (Adjournment.)  ********************************************* DISCLAIMER: THIS CART FILE WAS PRODUCED FOR COMMUNICATION ACCESS AS AN ADA ACCOMMODATION AND MAY NOT BE 100% VERBATIM. THIS IS A DRAFT FILE AND HAS NOT BEEN PROOFREAD. IT IS SCAN-EDITED ONLY, AS PER CART INDUSTRY STANDARDS, AND MAY CONTAIN SOME PHONETICALLY REPRESENTED WORDS, INCORRECT SPELLINGS, TRANSMISSION ERRORS, AND STENOTYPE SYMBOLS OR NONSENSICAL WORDS. THIS IS NOT A LEGAL DOCUMENT AND MAY CONTAIN COPYRIGHTED, PRIVILEGED OR CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION. 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